phlorph house map again

[coll9947]

So I swear I'm still working on this. It's still just sketches in my notebook, however, because I'm coming up on finals in school so it's hard enough to find time to play TF2, let alone do some mapping.

I"m gonna try to do a thorough sketch, maybe even isometric sketch, and share it on here within a few days.

I need to crack open the TF2 editing tools and see what kind of textures are at my disposal, because I honestly don't want to make a map that looks like dustbowl/granary/everythingelse. I'm thinkin like BLU and RED are fighting over an archaeological site or something, old ruins or whatnot. For some reason the idea of a Himalayan monastery keeps flashing in my head.

Perhaps with some ancient technology that can decimate the opposing team if certain things are accomplished in the round. I want to start the gameplay discussion again.

I'm guessing most of you would like to see the_rock type map objective for killing the enemy team?

[coll9947]

Another proposal:

I'm not sure if this is possible in TF2, but let's say there are five control points on the map, and holding them builds up score, so that whoever gets to X score first, wins. I know this has been done in games like WoW, but I haven't seen it in TF2, so there.

[-={ICE}=-Cobra]

The Arathi Basin idea is very intriguing, I guess whatever "theme" the map is based on ultimately will succeed or fail on the playability of the map itself.

The 5 point capture model used in Granary is not nearly as popular as Warpath, at least in the case of Phlorph Phlorph map kill stats (http://phlorph.hlstatsx.com/?mode=maps&game=tf).

I wish I knew something about building a map so I could actually be helpful, but I don't so what I want is a map that is cool and doesn’t suck. A map with large breasts that you run amongst, and large pubic mounds that you can hide in to snipe the enemy.

Simple

[SATAn]

well since you're a genious, I'm sure whatever you come up with will be awesome. Just keep us filled in, and try and take our input on anything you might be drawing a blank on. Maybe have one side capture a big fuckin gun..... to symbolize the resident phlorph addicted clan

[coll9947]

Okay, so first I have to ask if anyone is familiar with Duke Nukem 3D?

Second, if anyone remembers the map Anslem X?

Well, if you said yes to both of those, then you know that Anslem X was one of the best deathmatch maps made for Duke3D. And you're also a huge nerd like myself.

I've always wanted to make a tribute to that map, having spent so many hours roaming its eerie halls in search of victims.

Well, here's a layout of map. The original is not symmetrical, but I would make it so for TF2 purposes.

Original:
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g82/coll9947/anslemx.jpg

Here's where I would cut it for symmetrical team-based design:
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g82/coll9947/phmds1.jpg

Now, points B and C would not be mirrored, they are the axis of symmetry, top to bottom. There would be a D point in the middle of the blue area (the main courtyard/combat area) and then E would be the point on the mirrored section, the opposite of A. The points are more for my Arathi Basin type gameplay, but by default I would make this map an intel capture map if the AB thing doesn't end up working.

Here's some screenshots from the map in 3D so you can visualize it a bit better:

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g82/coll9947/phmss1.jpg
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g82/coll9947/phmss2.jpg
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g82/coll9947/phmss3.jpg

I would not stick to that visual style, that's where all you guys come in, giving me suggestions for adapting this to the TF2 theme of Wyle-E-Coyote type cartoonishness.

I would deviate SIGNIFICANTLY from the normal geometry, both to make it more visually interesting and to improve gameplay. Plus i think half of doing a tribute is doing your own interpretation of it, while still sticking to the core aspects that made the map what it was.

And finally, I don't want to even describe the process I went through to not only find a copy of this map, but also a working version of Duke3D, a program to make it run in a modern windows environment, AND a program that lets me edit the map in a windows environment.

[Zervun]

Well, coll you have my support in whatever you want/do this makes me very happy that your spending the time on this. There is a alot of people who play who would never think of giving back in some way ;)

[Salt Lick]

The Peak Monastery from Unreal Tournament was always my favorite deathmatch map. Since there isn't anything even remotely similar in Team Fortress, it would be quite cool to see a CP map based on that design style. Badlands tried for a more vertical combat dynamic but, in my opinion, they did not succeed. It would also require a higher skill level from players than most maps. Maybe set on an offshore platform instead of nothingness to improve plausibility. The Moliqpaq is nifty.

[coll9947]

That's a good idea salt, I like that style map as well.

I've done some cleaning and whatnot on the image, the black boxes represent where i would put respawns. None of this is to scale by any means. That alone is a lot to consider. But ya, so here it is all mirrored up with respective sides.

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g82/coll9947/ablayout.jpg

[SATAn]

looks great, I wish there was something I could contribute, but I know nothing about mapping. I think this is an amazing idea and think you're 10x cooler than before

[Worry]

any style you like is the best idea. If you're happy with it, you'll be more motivated and the end product will be better.

Just be sure it pleases everyone. simple.

oh, and that boobie thing cobra mentioned. that's good too.

damn nice of you to do this.
Just curious...what is your skill set exactly?

[coll9947]

Skillset as far as... game content creation? I spent two years as a virtual technology and design major at univ of idaho, which is basically majoring in 3d studio max. i have made maps for doom, duke3d, quake 1,2,3, unreal tournament, weapons factory UT, etc.

I think I have decided on kind of a austin powers / venture brothers type secret evil genius tropical island base thing. Kind of like the 2fort basement with vegetation and catwalks and dramatic lighting, almost something out of Goldeneye 64.

For the center area, I want to create something like 2fort that rewards a good double jump or rocket jump.

Scale wise, I'd like to keep it hectic, which is why i want to look into the gametype using a points system like Arathi Basin in WoW, so teams that can adapt will be rewarded.

Something like for every 10 seconds you hold a point it gives you 10 points, but only once every 10 seconds. First team to 2000 or whatever wins, I'm sure the values would have to be different than WoW, but i'll cross that bridge when i get there.

[Levi]

I approve whole-heartedly with hectic is good. I've been on-and-off again making a small CTF map for TF2 as well (Got the initial layout done, but making it look good is going really really slowly). If you got any advice on making things look not horrible I'd love to hear it :)

[coll9947]

Making a map look good is one of the hardest parts. I always look to the greats for inspiration, some of the maps for the original Unreal Tournament still blow me away. Breaking up long boring surfaces and plain 90 degree angles doesn't take much. My main concern with maps is always polygon count. I love decoration and detail, but if it slows performance then its out. Castle always bugs me in TF2 because there are so many wasted polygons.

2fort has a lot of great examples of simple ways to make a map less boring. The spiral ramp to the intel and the sewers are good ones. Also, detail can serve as a method of navigation for people who are more landmark-based than map-based. This is an obvious one, but sometimes looked over, but make sure to color code the bases, especially on a symmetrical map.

Personally, a method of mine for making maps less plain is to make sure all light has a source. The immersion factor goes way up when it seems like all the light is coming from appropriate sources. Plus light fixtures are a good way to emphasize a theme or style in a map.

[muiramme]

I love the ideas coll. It'll be really neat to have phlorph's own map. I personally never played duke nukem but I agree with salt lick, the peak monastery was my favorite death match map of all time.

on the other hand, evil bases are always cool :).

How difficult is it to create vegetation? I haven't seen... well, any really, in TF2, so if you go with a kind of jungle type setting, how difficult will it be to make it look accurate?

also as a suggestion... if you go with that sort of a theme, and can do this, have some areas where you can hide in the bushes or whatever, nice thick vegetation a medic can pop out of :P
Mach 4 has little pools of water that can be used for this purpose, thats why I'm thinking of it. :)

[coll9947]

Plan A involves just hoping that there are pre-made plant models in the source engine that can be used in TF2 without requiring the player to own the whole orange box. However, because TF2 can be bought separately, I believe I must map as if I only have TF2's resources to work with.

Plan B would involve tracking down some free vegetation models and textures and importing them into the game and just bundling the files with the map, although I would like to avoid it.

Plan C I make my own in 3ds max and import them.

Being underground / cave-like, I think I can avoid a lot of direct vegetation, so players might only see the "jungle" through glass like the 2fort intel room.

This week I am going to start modeling the rooms and start working on the scale, then I'll start filling in the actual geometry. There might be a test session once I have a complete skeleton, just to get a feel for how long it takes to cross the whole map, go from point X to point Y, etc. etc.

I want to give every class a chance to shine, which means good sniper battles and good SG spots, enough room for demos and soldiers to use their jump to their advantage, close quarters for the pyros, etc etc.

[Salt Lick]

Mapmakers can now place Engineer buildings directly into a map, with an option for them to be invulnerable It would be fun to use invulnerable sentries for spawn protection and map bounadries instead of invisible walls. I am really looking forward to this map despite not being a peak monastary.

[flameINSANE]

This sounds very badass coll. Good luck.;) I can't wait for it to be done!

[coll9947]

Just a teaser...

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g82/coll9947/teaser.jpg

I've got it at least running TF2 now, and I must say Hammer is both the best and worst editor I have ever used.

I will have the basic geometry fully complete by the end of the week, with play functionality done over the weekend. No decoration, and only floor/wall/ceiling texture work.

By the end of next week I bet it would be in a position to have a test game played on it, if anyone could stand looking at nasty textures and Quake I polygon counts.

I'm concerned about scale at this point. Right now it seems like it will be 2fort in ROUGH size, meaning the main area between the bases is about the same size, give or take 20%.

I have so many ideas in my head that I have to constantly stop myself and focus on getting the basic geometry done.

[Zervun]

Is it me, or does that remind me what Satan's Sex lair would look like. Minus the dozen or so gay men in leather =)


Looking good coll, lemme know if you need anything (other than satans sex crowd)

[-={ICE}=-Cobra]

Thats pretty cool Coll, it will be neat watching the progress from the groun up. Keep us posted with upates.

[coll9947]

Okay, so this is the rough layout of the map so far, consider it digital balsa wood and foam core.

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g82/coll9947/alpha2screen1.jpg

Here's some shots. Again, this is nowhere near what it will look like when it is done, almost all of what you see will be replaced later on with the final surfaces. I first want the scale and layout to be right before I make it look like something.

Right now all I need to do for playability is add doors and gametype/objectives. It has 16 start points per side. Just in case...

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g82/coll9947/alpha20000.jpg
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g82/coll9947/alpha20002.jpg
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g82/coll9947/alpha20003.jpg
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g82/coll9947/alpha20004.jpg
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g82/coll9947/alpha20005.jpg
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g82/coll9947/alpha20006.jpg
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g82/coll9947/alpha20007.jpg
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g82/coll9947/alpha20008.jpg
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g82/coll9947/alpha20009.jpg
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g82/coll9947/alpha20010.jpg

Now here's where you guys come in!! I need ideas for what to do with the center area. The map will probably have a visual theme similar to Hydro, because the more I think about it the more i realize that I need to use TF2 assets only so that if you ONLY bought TF2 you're not screwed on textures.

The center area is crucial, and I want it to be just right.

In the side areas there will be crates/blocks to allow for people to jump up to the 2nd floor.

[Zervun]

Looking really good coll, I'll have to ponder some suggestions.