Just got back from E3 and

[SheriffPony]

The 3DS is unbelievably awesome!

I thought this thing was a piece of crap that didn't need to be made, but then I got my hands on one and played it and it blew me away. I recommend grabbing one of these things day one and trying one out as soon as possible.

[sputgop]

Are you serious?!

How did you get into E3?

[Levi]

Meh, it'll probably end up like the regular DS. Nothing on the store shelves but shovelware.

[Grassman7z7]

Meh, it'll probably end up like the regular X360/PS3/Wii/PSP. Nothing on the store shelves but shovelware.

My concern is the amount of Headache inducing that you get from it. Or how it looks when you aren't the one playing it (If someone wanted to watch.)

[Your_Typical_Mental]

I want a nintendo 3ds sooooooooo bad right now!!!

[Ripskin]

I loathe all things 3d like that. Games, TV, movies...

[Milesprower]

It honestly might have potential for all I know, but the whole 3D graphics craze is bothering me something fierce. It's nothing more than a gimmick at this point.

As for the 3DS itself.
The graphics are sub-par, again. Acceptable only because it's Nintendo and they don't push the graphical limits of anything.
The design of the system itself is god awful. Why does Nintendo think squares are a good design? This harks all the way back to the NES controller, possibly the worst designed controller of all time. I'd much rather hold a PSP than the 3DS.
The analog stick on it, apparently isn't even analog as well. Another minus in my book.

Unless the 3DS manages something besides gimmicky things, I doubt it'll be a must have for anyone. But that won't stop it from selling like hot cakes.

[Levi]

I loathe all things 3d like that. Games, TV, movies...

Me too. Except for 3d shooters of course.

Man I hope that new Castlevania is for the PSN as well.

[Your_Typical_Mental]

You guys are too cynical. I challenge any of you to name another possible natural progression in Video game innovation.

As for your comments Miles, hand held system is typical a generation or two behind the console, would it then be correct to assume you were equally as pissed that your original gameboy didn't look nearly as good as your Super Nintendo or Genesis?

[Levi]

There is innovation, and there is gimmicks. The wii controller was a gimmick. Rumble was a gimmick. Stereoscopic 3d is a gimmick.

The only innovation I want to see is:

1) A controller with a trackball built in instead of a joystick.
2) Games that generate their own content.
3) Weird-ass cyborg shit that plugs right into my head.

[Grassman7z7]

1) I'm pretty sure you can find some Chinese knockoff console with a controller like that
2) Procedural Generation? L4D, Minecraft (http://minecraft.net/), countless others
3) VirtuaBoy

[Ripskin]

I had a long post, now its short.

There is a lot of available innovation being done and possible for the industry to make use of or pursue aside from a crappy gimmick that gives some people headaches.

[Your_Typical_Mental]

I had a long post, now its short.

There is a lot of available innovation being done and possible for the industry to make use of or pursue aside from a crappy gimmick that gives some people headaches.

That's no different to the minority that gets motion sickness from games.

[Ripskin]

That's no different to the minority that gets motion sickness from games.

My wife does not get headaches from 3d, but after an hour her eyes hurt, and then it takes a while for them to adjust and focus normally on things outside of the media. It is quite different from people who get motion sick in games. In motion sickness from a game the realism and accurate (to them) motions of what they are seeing on the screen cause them to be immersed in such a way that they can get physically ill. In 3d headaches it is because the image is so blurry and poorly represented that it is physically painful to view it for any length of time, and removes the viewer from the film or game.

3d has been around for a few decades now, came and went and came again in a not so fun way. Right now it is the "in" thing to do instead of having a story, or a plot. 3d destroys the visual aspect of the media so you cannot focus on what is happening accurately. DP's camera motions or in game actions no longer have clarity or work as they normally would.

We do not see in 3d, we perceive depth. The range or resolution that we see and the quality of what we see as it relates to how our eyes function immerses you in the game or movie infinitely greater than something impossible for us to perceive naturally.

Innovations utilizing the available hardware to its full potential along with optimized software, quality AI, completely destructible environments that actually stay and change the entire game, true causality, better audio quality, true surround... Those are innovations just to name a small few.

What makes 3d so appealing? What does it bring to the table aside from blurry off color images? How will it assist in the story or the game? When something jumps out of the screen at you how does that benefit your game? If you use Eyefinity or Nvidia Surround in 3d what will the different viewing angles do to the effect? Similar to a movie due to how your eye functions and is shaped?

If a game is completely designed to goof around in 3d for kids or a tech demo it could work, but driving, fps, flying, simulation's RPGs RTS's, movies etc it brings nothing to the table.



Back on topic, how was E3 overall? Back to what it once was after they broke it up or still finding its feet again? I would love to go to one of those or CES. Best I get is Quakecon which pales in comparison aside from having a LAN party...

[Milesprower]

You guys are too cynical. I challenge any of you to name another possible natural progression in Video game innovation.

As for your comments Miles, hand held system is typical a generation or two behind the console, would it then be correct to assume you were equally as pissed that your original gameboy didn't look nearly as good as your Super Nintendo or Genesis?

Sometimes I wonder if you're more of a Typical Moron than a Mental.
The problem is, the 3DS is the next generation of hand helds, which should SURPASS the current generation. Unfortunately, the thing looks on par with the PSP. Many comments have stated it's below Wii, and around PSP.

Progression? How about less 3D gimmicks and instead go with full immersion.

[Your_Typical_Mental]

Lets be realistic here, one can't have HD graphics and exceptional battery life in the same handheld. The PSP does graphics comparable to the PS2, but with the out of the box battery it gave only 4–6 hours of gameplay, not too mention when it launched it was bulky in order to fit PS2 capable hardware in it.

I'm gonna stop this now because I feeling like a fanboy again and I spent an hour writing this.

[Grassman7z7]

Sometimes I wonder if you're more of a Typical Moron than a Mental.
The problem is, the 3DS is the next generation of hand helds, which should SURPASS the current generation. Unfortunately, the thing looks on par with the PSP. Many comments have stated it's below Wii, and around PSP.

Progression? How about less 3D gimmicks and instead go with full immersion.

Less insulting please.

Also, if you look at the hardware, you are playing with a device that is closer to an X360 (http://www.destructoid.com/3ds-said-to-be-graphically-close-to-ps3-xbox-360-175682.phtml) than a Wii. The problem is that multiple images are being produced every frame, and that limits graphics capabilities in exchange for 3D. I'm not saying 3D is great, but if you look at the technology being used here the 3DS is actually quite the powerful little machine. It just doesn't provide the graphics quality available with the X360 and PS3 - it branched out and does 3D.

3D does seem the next logical step in the path to full immersion. It won't be long now until we see something else 'gimmicky' in the industry.

Also, if you are correct about how necessary graphics are in a handheld, then look at sales figures of PSP and DS. Or, get this: ANYTHING and DS. You'll see how important it is.

Plus, I did hear somewhere that 3D could be toggled on certain games. Anyone have anything pro/anti this?

[Levi]

I bought my ds for 2d games. Heh, I don't think I've got a single 3d thing on there.

[Grassman7z7]

I guess now we have to call it Stereoscopic or whatever, huh?
Sidescrolling/2D gaming is where it's at anyways.

[Milesprower]

And have you looked at the majority of people that have purchased a DS?
Nintendo is attempting to cash in on the giant 3D craze in their own way. Albeit, it's unique, it doesn't impress me in the slightest, much like the Wii, or the DS. None of those devices were revolutionary, and it's unlikely the 3DS will be different.

Poorly rendered 3D is NOT a step towards immersion, it's the bloody virtual boy all over.

Edit:
Also, 3DS technical specs have put it as LESS powerful than a Wii.
Attempting to claim the handheld is as powerful as a tri-core console, whilst maintaining moderate battery life is laughable at best.
Nintendo ought to also state that it is using stereoscopic images as well. Creating the illusion of depth is not 3D.

[Grassman7z7]

I'll need to see something backing up your claims. Nintendo has not released any specs.

Have you looked at the majority of people who purchased an X360? A PS3?
Just because it doesn't impress you doesn't mean it won't impress anyone. I'm not impressed by the PS3 - About 1/10th of the games run at something greater than 25 FPS - and that's sometimes. Quite the impressive $600 machine you got there.

There is only the illusion of 3D. What do you think our eyes do, run a copy of Maya?

[Zervun]

Sometimes I wonder if you're more of a Typical Moron than a Mental.
The problem is, the 3DS is the next generation of hand helds, which should SURPASS the current generation. Unfortunately, the thing looks on par with the PSP. Many comments have stated it's below Wii, and around PSP.

Progression? How about less 3D gimmicks and instead go with full immersion.

While I am a firm believer in freedom of speech, please restrain from personal attacks. I don't care if people argue back and forth, just please keep a good head. We are all friends here even if we don't agree ;).

I own a dsi, with a card and have a ton of games on it. Fun factor yes, graphics SO HORRIBLE, drives me nuts.

I agree I don't see much in the 3DS - the graphics are the kicker for me as it's not fun when it looks so bad. I'm still going to probably sell mine, and buy the 3d one, but I'm not expecting much.

99% of my issue with it is the horrible graphics, but it's great for plane rides. I do play my dsi occasionally, however I rarely, if ever, touched my psp, and sold it.

Ironically having owned pretty much every portable under the sun, yes I owned a turbograph 16, I miss my lynx the most. It's somewhat ironic that the ds graphics barely surpass the lynx ones, and the lynx had games that were really meant for portable gaming.

Turbographics16 was way ahead of it's time, and still looks better than damn near everything, unfortunately the screen is about the size of Satan's penis x100, ie microscopic

[-={ICE}=-Cobra]

Only portable I have ever had was a Sega Game Gear, horrible thing.

[Choco]

Game Gear (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dw3iYlDCos) was the shit. SEGA!

[Milesprower]

Game Gear was kind of terrble, even though I loved it at the time. Nice joke on the price of the PS3, that's so 2008. How much would it cost to have bought every DS this gen? DS, DS Lite, DSi, DSi XL, and now 3DS? At $199 that's nearly $1000 to have upgraded to each. Hell, going from DS to DSi is $400, and assuming the 3DS is $199 that'd make $600. All console makers are the kings of making consumers buy useless stuff.

[Your_Typical_Mental]

how much did you spend on your gaming PC?

[Milesprower]

Let's see, for this current one, $400 for Motherboard, Processor, RAM, $200 for Video Card, and that's it.

The case and power supply are both from my previous build, as is the hard drive, dvd/cd burner, keyboard, mouse, and monitor.

So $600 for a machine that not only plays games, but does pretty much everything I want it to outside of play current gen console games (that is, PS3 and 360, can play Wii just fine.)

So what point are you trying to make?
If it's, but you spent x amount on a gaming PC, then that's a moot point, considering the various capabilities of said PC compared to a hand held device.

[Grassman7z7]

Its always been about $800 for a really good PC, excluding monitor(s) and keyboard/mouse and speakers. Not that expensive, considering not only do you get a high-end gaming PC, but it can do everything else a computer can do... since it IS a computer. Plus, you don't have to buy a new one - upgrading is always a plus.

PC is always much more worth it than a Console, but not exactly a Handheld... you can't lug your computer everywhere if you really need to get your gaming fix on the go. Laptops seem to fit that niche quite well though.

How many versions of the PS3 are there? Didn't they just come out with a PS3 Slim? I think XBox just did too... how much do those costs add up to? Heck, two versions of the PS3 cost more than all versions of the DS, by the looks of it. I didn't exactly price check though.

Plus, DS has 100% backwards compatibility from the get-go. All your old GBA (GBC/GB as well?) work on the first few models at least. My Gamecube broke after years of abuse and I have never had any trouble playing the games on the Wii. That is quite an investment in games that I can keep playing. I recall the PS3 and X360 having a lot of trouble with Backwards compatibility.

[Milesprower]

The PS3 Slim and 360 Slim both are identical in terms of functionality to their original versions, (excluding the 2nd gen PS3, and PS3 slim not including PS2 game compatibility.)

However, there are games that require the DSi, and there will be games that require the 3DS to play. So you HAVE to buy a newer handheld in order to play the newer games on it, unlike the Wii, PS3, or Xbox 360, which do not require a newer version of the console to play the game. That's really the an issue I have with Nintendo and their current handheld offerings. Most buyers expect a several year shelf life out of their console, at least, I know I do. Yes, some consoles do offer new accessories, i.e. Eye Toy, Move, Kinect, Wii Motion Plus, etc. But none of them offer a new version of the Wii, for full retail price, with one or two extra features that can not be added to the previous console. There isn't likely to be a PS3 coming out that includes a feature that the previous PS3 isn't capable of, same goes with Xbox360 and Wii. All of those will have the ability to add on to the console.

But I do agree with you on the PC part. When you purchase a decent gaming PC, you're investing in more than just a gaming machine.

[Your_Typical_Mental]

However, there are games that require the DSi, and there will be games that require the 3DS to play. So you HAVE to buy a newer handheld in order to play the newer games on it, unlike the Wii, PS3, or Xbox 360, which do not require a newer version of the console to play the game.

That only applies to the downloadable games on the DSI store. You don't need to buy a new DS too play any cartridge games released after it.

[Milesprower]

http://kotaku.com/5349422/first-dsi+only-games-hit-stores-this-fall-with-distinct-look

My bad, I should have said there are going to be games that require the DSi.

[Grassman7z7]

Yeah, the DS lineup is starting to remind me of a certain phone/tablet/MP3 player/crap company. Still not as bad though. (Not a new model out every year, that's a plus)

Are DSi Only games such that they require the cameras to use? Or does the new hardware (I believe that there were some improvements within the DSi itself over the older models) the basis of some of the restriction?
Personally, I stay out of the Handheld world. I don't have the time (and money) to be playing when I'm away from my computer. I don't really touch consoles either - My Wii plays all my old Gamecube games though, and also has Smash Brothers, and Monster Hunter, and Mario Galaxy, and that's all I really need. I don't really play it much.

Heck, the combination of Motion Controls (Ignoring that Wii was already on the market with that) and 3D gaming is like a double step towards the next age of gaming. Too bad none of us want it. PC Gaming is the only one that seems to be standing right where I like it. That is probably why it is dying out.

[Milesprower]

New Hardware and Camera usage from what I read.
I prefer the PSP, simply because of all the usage I've gotten from it, 140 hours logged on MHF1, and 160 on MHFU, that's 300 hours on a bloody handheld for just two games.

[SATAn]

That's no different to the minority that gets motion sickness from games.

Just like ADD is no different than down's syndrome? because you've tried to make that argument too....

[Your_Typical_Mental]

Just like ADD is no different than down's syndrome? because you've tried to make that argument too....

I said there are parallels. Leave my brother alone.

[Grassman7z7]

I think the only fun I've had with a PSP was playing a SNES Emulator on it, which is pretty cool. I'm sure I'd burn through a lot of time with MH.

[SATAn]

I said there are parallels. Leave my brother alone.

I wasn't talking about your brother, I was talking about your argument the other night. I'm sure most people with ADHD or ADD would find it very insulting. Either way though, I'm going to have to agree that the 3DS seems like appletendo is just cashing in on the newest craze

[Your_Typical_Mental]

I think the only fun I've had with a PSP was playing a SNES Emulator on it, which is pretty cool. I'm sure I'd burn through a lot of time with MH.

If there were more games for the PSP that weren't PS2 rehashes I might've been more interested.

[Zervun]

Yeah, the DS lineup is starting to remind me of a certain phone/tablet/MP3 player/crap company. Still not as bad though. (Not a new model out every year, that's a plus)

Are DSi Only games such that they require the cameras to use? Or does the new hardware (I believe that there were some improvements within the DSi itself over the older models) the basis of some of the restriction?
Personally, I stay out of the Handheld world. I don't have the time (and money) to be playing when I'm away from my computer. I don't really touch consoles either - My Wii plays all my old Gamecube games though, and also has Smash Brothers, and Monster Hunter, and Mario Galaxy, and that's all I really need. I don't really play it much.

Heck, the combination of Motion Controls (Ignoring that Wii was already on the market with that) and 3D gaming is like a double step towards the next age of gaming. Too bad none of us want it. PC Gaming is the only one that seems to be standing right where I like it. That is probably why it is dying out.

Ironically a recent study out within the last couple months has the PC gaming market booming, and the consoles have taken a hit. Took about 3 years to turn around but PC gaming is going very strong atm.

Steam is a MASSIVE reason for this - I can't express how smart they were to release older games, indie games, and other games on sales and crap. I can't count how many games I've bought on a sale from them.

Also funny is I haven't bought a console (non portable) since sony playstation 1. GOOD GOD JET MOTO FTW.

I just can't justify something that you can't upgrade that doesn't have a special niche like a portable. I do want a PS3 though but don't want to grab my ankles.

[Grassman7z7]

Ironically a recent study out within the last couple months has the PC gaming market booming, and the consoles have taken a hit. Took about 3 years to turn around but PC gaming is going very strong atm.

Steam is a MASSIVE reason for this - I can't express how smart they were to release older games, indie games, and other games on sales and crap. I can't count how many games I've bought on a sale from them.

Also funny is I haven't bought a console (non portable) since sony playstation 1. GOOD GOD JET MOTO FTW.

I just can't justify something that you can't upgrade that doesn't have a special niche like a portable. I do want a PS3 though but don't want to grab my ankles.

Thats good to hear. I actually find myself buying more games (With them being on sale and so easy to deal with) because of Steam than I ever did pirate them. This is probably in combination with me actually having an income too.

Rest assured there are a lot of people who want PC gaming to die out. A lot easier to make money off of us when we're buying their consoles. Also harder to pirate games on console, as well as having the same system running your game with everyone, development is easier.

Luckily, it seems that the consoles are getting 'old' whereas you can always upgrade your PC and make it 'new'.

May as well wait for the PS4, by then you'll have saved up enough lube.

[Milesprower]

No joke, I agree 100% about the sales on Steam. I find that I've been buying every single title I pirated and enjoyed, as a way of making sure the developer got a bit o' my money. I don't even play some of them!

I'm a PC gamer inside and out, but I do enjoy having a PS3 around for the Blu-Ray functionality, and the exclusives on it. There's quite a few games on the PS3, and PSP, that are not playable elsewhere, and are games that I want to be able to play.

Also, Typical, more fact please.
Yes, there are several PS2 games rehashed on PSP, but you'd be all but insane to not say the same about the DS and other Nintendo games. In fact, I'd rate the DS and Wii both as #1 in shovel-ware, a Nintendo specialty in my book. That does NOT mean there aren't original or fun titles for either. Osu! Tatake! Ouendan! was the first game I bought for my DS, and Lumines was the first I bought for my PSP.

[Grassman7z7]

In general the medium in the lead gets the most shovel ware. There is plenty of it everywhere, but they go for where they can get the most money.

[SheriffPony]

So I'm at my parents now and can't hide you my full impressions on E3 until I get back to my computer. To answer the first question, my brother's girlfriend works for ignition and was able to get me and a friend in. More pictures and answers later.

[Your_Typical_Mental]

Also, Typical, more fact please.
Yes, there are several PS2 games rehashed on PSP, but you'd be all but insane to not say the same about the DS and other Nintendo games. In fact, I'd rate the DS and Wii both as #1 in shovel-ware, a Nintendo specialty in my book. That does NOT mean there aren't original or fun titles for either. Osu! Tatake! Ouendan! was the first game I bought for my DS, and Lumines was the first I bought for my PSP.

I will not disagree about shovelware, all of from know nothing third party developers, even Nintendo did itself no favor releasing WiiMusic.

[Laggy]

GOOD GOD JET MOTO FTW.


You just won this thread! Love that game, I remember buying it at the flea market 1-2 years back! Such a good game!

[Zervun]

You just won this thread! Love that game, I remember buying it at the flea market 1-2 years back! Such a good game!

I've actually considered going back and buying a PS just for that, I loved all 3 versions.

We played it in college drunk off our asses - it was SERIOUS competition

[Laggy]

I've actually considered going back and buying a PS just for that, I loved all 3 versions.

We played it in college drunk off our asses - it was SERIOUS competition

Play stations are cheap now I bet, totally worth going back just to play it in my opinion! Love the nebulous heaven hell levels!

[super77]

Appletendo
I'm looking forward to that merger.


Excited about a more powerful DS, but not excited about the 3D gimmick.

E3 wasn't too exciting beyond that. :(

[Milesprower]

3DS GPU specs have been revealed, with it's power being roughly equivilent to the old Xbox's GPU, so this is definitely a step up for the DS. Reports put it as "more versatile" than the Wii, but not neccesarily more powerful than the Wii.

Definitely also means it's faster (in theory) than the PSP, but it is forced to render in stereoscopy, which somewhat throttles it's potential.

Curious what Sony plans to do about this :3

[Levi]

Curious what Sony plans to do about this :3

A handheld that shoots the visuals straight into your retina's via lasers at 1920x1200 resolution.

I wish...

[Your_Typical_Mental]

Here's my prediction, they'll curb stomp the very idea, then nick the idea, and claim they were working on it first. they did the exact same thing about motion controls.

[Milesprower]

Well that's nothing new for any company.
Nearly every company borrows from others.

[Grassman7z7]

Pretty much. I wish they would make 2D games for the 3DS, and just use the new hardware. Maybe they can. I'd be down for that.

[Milesprower]

Well, according to reports, that probably isn't likely to happen, since it renders two different images on the bottom. They were saying 3D can be disabled though, so maybe developers can utilize that feature for some snazzy lookin' games. Who knows, we shall see.

Imo, needs more PSP2 and MHF4.

[Milesprower]

Also, random interesting article about the negative effects of 3D stuff.
http://www.audioholics.com/news/editorials/warning-3d-video-hazardous-to-your-health/

[Ripskin]

The 3d fad cannot die fast enough.

[Zervun]

Also, random interesting article about the negative effects of 3D stuff.
http://www.audioholics.com/news/editorials/warning-3d-video-hazardous-to-your-health/

Thats a pretty interesting article.

Having worn contacts for 20+ years it sucks, I can totally feel the effect of degrading my sight.

I would think that we aren't meant to watch 3d all the time, it's screwing with our eyes.

I actually went to vision negative therapy when I was younger, it stabilized my vision for a time - they did interesting things like focus excersies, sitting in a dark room then randomly moving around pictures around it, and so forth. Basically it was trying to train your eyes to be better - it worked, but was slow, and I left for college. I can imagine things like 3d have the 100% worse effect if done on a daily basis.